Here's another one from one of my famous friends. I'd like to spend a little time discussing it, so nobody is allowed to post an answer that just says "yes."
Well, here's another question for anyone to mull over. I've been wondering, is it okay to pray to Jesus and the Holy Spirit even though Scripture never says we should, and even Jesus prayed only to the Father?
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"Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it." John 14:13-14
Jesus says this right after he tells the disciples that he is going back to the Father. So he is obviously referring to the future when he will no longer be physically present on the earth. **Some manuscripts omit "me" in verse 14**
I guess a couple other thoughts/questions I would have concerning the Holy Spirit are:
If he teaches us all things and
brings to remembrance all things
that Jesus said (John 14:26), is
it ok to talk to him?
He is called the Advocate,
Helper, or Counselor (v16).
Should we not talk to him? Is it
one-way communication?
What about him interceding for
us?
Regarding Jesus, I have a similar question about intercession:
Hebrews 7:25 says that Jesus
"always lives to make
intercession for them (those who
draw near to God through him)"
If Jesus is our "great high
priest" and he makes intercession
for us, should we not pray to
him? Is his intercession only his
sacrifice for sins or is it
ongoing as 7:25 seems to say?
I guess my closing argument would be that if Jesus and the Holy Spirit are both God, then it can't be wrong to pray to them. I've heard it said that we pray in the Holy Spirit, through Jesus, and to the Father. I think that is the most biblical approach. But I definitely wouldn't get worked up if I heard someone praying to Jesus or the H.S.
Hmm, thanks Josh. I agree and don't have much to add right now, except that is it ok to pray to Mary if you choose to believe she is the third person of the Godhead?
Sorry, couldn't help it. Read Kyle Borg's latest post on his blog www.synodofsaints.blogspot.com
I guess we have allah, Mary, and who was the other one?
Good thoughts, thanks for sharing.
Josh, in terms of John 14 I think Calvin is a good reference (for anything) and though he says more on this matter I thought would post an excerpt from his commentary, "By these words He plainly declares that he will be the Author of all that shall be done by the hands of the Apostles. But it may be asked, was he not even then the Mediator in whose name men ought to pray to the Father? I reply, he plainly discharged the office of Mediator, ever since he entered into the heavenly sanctuary; as we shall afterwards repeat at the proper place." I think that's insightful and upholds the idea that we only pray to the Father and makes sense with the rest of the context.
Also, interceding is different than praying to, like you said we pray to the Father, by the Spirit, in the name of Jesus.
Lastly, you say, "if Jesus and the Holy Spirit are both God, then it can't be wrong to pray to them." Would you say that in every work external to the Trinity each Person has their own function? I hope your answer is yes. For instance, in salvation each Person has their own function, in creation each person has their own function. It would be wrong for us to say that the Father suffered and died for our sins, even though he is one with Christ, it was Christ who died.
Could praying to the H.S. and Jesus be "wrong" in that sense? We make our petition to the Father in the name of Christ and by the power of the Spirit, each has their own function and should be honored for that function.
The reason I ask is because orthodox Reformed theology maintains that one should only pray to the Father. I have found it an interesting point and been pondering it for a number of months.
Ok, good. I was reading Acts 7 and during the stoning of Stephen Acts 7:59 says "he prayed, 'Lord Jesus, recieve my Spirit.' And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, 'Lord, do not hold this sin against them."
That seems like he is praying to Jesus. Calvin calls it commending his spirit to Jesus, but seems to use "Lord" interchangably as praying to Jesus or God the Father. I think Mr. Borg is right that interceding is different than praying. However, it does seem that Christ tells us to ask him things in his name in John 14 and that seems to be modeled in Acts 7. I do not want to fight with orthodox Reformed theology, though, because i will loose. Personally, i pray firstly to God the Father and feel it is right to do so, but at this point, like Josh, i wouldn't get worked up about someone praying to Jesus or the Holy Spirit.
I haven't read Kyle's post yet Andy, but I think the 3rd one is Jabez. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Kyle, I certainly agree that each person in the Trinity has their own function. Scripture does explicitly say, "Only pray to the Father", or "Don't pray to Jesus and the Holy Spirit", which is why I believe we are having this discussion. That is why I said it is not "wrong". I'm not trying to use the argument from silence here...like saying, "it's ok to smoke pot because the Bible doesn't say anything about it."
I like Andy's example of Stephen in Acts 7.
One last question for you 2, or anyone else.
If each Person of the Trinity has their own function, can we petition them to do what they individually do? This may be a stretch...I haven't thought much about it, but just curious.
For example in Rev. 21:17 where the Spirit and the Bride say "Come" and then v.20 John writes "Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!"
Oh, one last thing. Andy, why am I just "Josh" and Kyle is "Mr. Borg"?
:)
Well then, Mr. Josh,
First off, you're wrong. i think the third in that trinity might be the Pope or satan, one of the two. Sorry again. I just get a little carried away sometimes.
About petitioning each Person of the Trinity to do what they do, I might not entirely understand the question. You mean like saying "Please intercede for us, Holy Spirit," "Come Lord Jesus," "Father please bring my sister to a saving faith in you," that kind of thing? That's a good one. I want to know what people have to say about that.
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